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Gummy Worm
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Posted - 2013.10.24 20:59:00 -
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MeBiatch wrote:Kellath Eladrel wrote:MeBiatch wrote:what about 5 orge II as they do more damage then sentries?
that with short range pulse ammo and you should be able to break it... The switch to Ogres requires a ton of drone bay space and they only add maybe 20 dps max. The short range turrets, overheated sometimes, are what can push you over. too bad you cant overheat drones eh?
That was me last night as a Drone noob running some missions, lol. Can I overheat these sumsbitches?
Staying on topic, the 7.5 plus 5 drones makes more sense. I agree. I'd even take 1 less turret slot. |
Gummy Worm
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Posted - 2013.10.24 23:58:00 -
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Nar Tha wrote:CCP Rise wrote:I know there was some voices (yours especially Omnathious) who preferred the 5 virus strength version, but we talked about it quite a bit and the intended trade off with cov ops wasn't really needed because cov ops aren't built around a hacking role. They are meant more as probers and intel gatherers rather than hacking ships, so that means we can boost the SOE ships' roles as explorers without causing problems.
I should also add that the overwhelming majority of people really wanted to see it go to 10 strength. I think the concept is good. So T1 Scan Frigates will basically evolve into two different branches, one being Covert Ops Frigates which focus more on scanning itself, and the other one being SoE Faction Ships which focus more on exploration (as in the general PvE/Hacking content). Maybe you should consider even removing the virus bonus from Covert Ops Frigates completely and replace it with something like Scan Deviation or Time or both - to make the difference between both roles even more distinct.
I like this idea. It makes the divide between the two classes less about subjective use and more about actual stat buffs. |
Gummy Worm
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Posted - 2013.10.25 00:42:00 -
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I would suggest to Rise, that you don't shut the door on any further consideration of what people have to say. You guys have talked about it a lot behind your doors, along with 100s of other topics, here it's undiluted and fresh. A lot of great alternatives being thrown around to maintain the balance you're wanting to achieve and also give the majority of people who are really excited about the ship something to look forward to.
People want full fleet of drones/sentries?
Take away a high slot or a turret slot.
Decrease the drone capacity so they have to be much more conservative with launching them. 325 is fleets of every size, much less than current 400.
Increase the scan resolution so that it's significantly higher than the Ishtar (294)
You want to launch a ship that gets people moist, this is obviously that ship. When was the last time collectively the entire community was on its head for a ship? And in one fell swoop that excitement was sobered with the 100mb bandwidth. I think it'd be worth it to revisit balancing the ship once more with bringing 125 back and then maybe chopping a different leg since the response to this was pretty clear.
If I'm whispering in your PR guy's ear I'm telling him to encourage you all to rouse as much excitement as you can going INTO the update, and then nerfing afterwards once people have come back, newbies have picked up trials and GTC's have been purchased. |
Gummy Worm
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Posted - 2013.10.25 21:34:00 -
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I don't think many people are arguing that it cannot kill anything, but simply the applied nerf mostly concerned its PVE capabilities when the PVP capabilities was the original concern. Despite being told it was a very thoroughly discussed topic, the specific nerf didn't make sense. We all would agree that something had to be done. Nobody is saying that the original setup was not broken on paper, but the fix wasn't very well thought out from what we've been told and presented. |
Gummy Worm
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Posted - 2013.10.25 21:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Querns wrote:I did, but if you'd like to pretend that your issues aren't about that then I'd recommend we move the discussion to EVE Fiction where it belongs. I run lvl 4's in cap stable marauders half the time. The other half I run a rattlesnake because drones are awesome. I run inefficient ships with inefficient and cheap setups. Arguing efficiency and isk/hour is not something I can knowledgeably do. I'm aware it suits your purpose to pretend it's all anyone cares about, but surely some part of you has the capacity to think beyond that illusion, right? Querns wrote:This is exactly my point -- the anger being levied here with the constant references to marginal Eve PVE content is directly related to the fact that a ship previously thought to cut the time taken to run these sites is being nerfed below the threshold where changing ships is required.
It could have been worse -- CCP could have made this change after you had purchased your new toys but before you managed to waddle into a DED complex to actually use it. :V Hence the point of the dissenters here. It switching ships this is completely outclassed, other ships can scan and run then better and arguable run wider ranges of sites. Yes, there has to be some loss from say, an ishtar+helios combo in finding and doing sites, but there should still be enough teeth in this to actually do the same range and in reasonably close times. Now consider 2 Statios vs Ishtar&Helios. Then consider Ishtar+Stratios. In both of those situations you are probably running a 6/10 faster than just a solo Ishtar with a prober helping it find the sites fast. My complaints with the ships are still. The Astero does need that third high. Cloak, Probes, Salvager/Remote Reps/Cyno. Simply fitting Cloak & Probes leaves you no utility highs & no turret DPS, meaning your drones have to be DPS drones. The Stratios needs a better laser bonus. Or CCP need to scrap the whole laser bonus idea. It is not fulfilling it's role as a combined laser/drone ship with current bonuses. & as such is a largely wasted bonus. 3 Turret slots (Since 90% of actually used fits will have at least 2 utility) with a 37.5% bonus to Optimal & Damage come out with similar laser DPS, lower cap use, and slightly less range than we have currently, which avoids stepping on any other optimal bonused laser ships toes, while providing a clear reason to use lasers over other turrets (But not negating the advantages of other turrets in certain side cases). The Expanded Probe launcher should be given a CPU buff on the Stratios. It's silly that you have to train to a single ship class that is meant to be a 'generalist' class while no ship in the T1 or T2 range (Especially the specialist T2 range) gets any bonus to fitting a combat probe launcher. & as such fitting one uses over 1/3rd of your CPU up instantly. Horribly gimping the fit for any other uses.
Third high isn't necessary. Salvage, and armor rep maintenance drones are all you need in this little guy. Necessary is the keyword.
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Gummy Worm
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Posted - 2013.10.25 21:41:00 -
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Xolve wrote:Gummy Worm wrote:I don't think many people are arguing that it cannot kill anything, but simply the applied nerf mostly concerned its PVE capabilities when the PVP capabilities was the original concern. Despite being told it was a very thoroughly discussed topic, the specific nerf didn't make sense. We all would agree that something had to be done. Nobody is saying that the original setup was not broken on paper, but the fix wasn't very well thought out from what we've been told and presented. Explain to me why losing 20% of a fifth drone matters so much then.
It's not that it matters so much, it's that what was affected was not the concern, and there were much better ways to fix it. If you have a problem, resolve it. Our bike had three wheels and we just had our seat cut in half to minimize mass weight. My question to you would be the same, "Why gaining 20% of a fifth drone matter so much?" So, then the divide between us is the application of the necessary nerf: Was it applied to the best possible spot on the ship? Could there have been a better spot? My position is a very emphatic yes. |
Gummy Worm
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Posted - 2013.10.25 23:09:00 -
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Arthur Aihaken wrote:Better not touch my T3 after this.
Oh, it's coming. We all know it. |
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